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U.S. National Academy of Science Reaffirms Safety of GMOs for 11th Time, But Confuses the Story on Yields

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The U.S. National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine recently revisited the topic of genetically engineered crops, commonly (if misleadingly) called “GMOs.” Their report, titled “Genetically Engineered Crops: Experiences and Prospects,” is the 11th examination of this issue by the Academies since its first look in 1987. The media has noticed, with coverage that has been abundant and global. And while the Academy’s presentation on yields is clumsy and confusing, they got it exactly right on the most important safety issues.

Media coverage, like the report itself, has also mostly gotten it right. The report reaffirms the safety of foods derived from transgenic crops strongly and unambiguously. It reaffirms that biotech crops have led to dramatic reductions in pesticide applications and that biotech has driven herbicide use away from older compounds to newer active ingredients with dramatically reduced and more favorable environmental impacts. And all this has recently been further corroborated with yet another major publication in the peer-reviewed literature. The National Academy of Sciences (NAS) report reaffirms the findings of all its previous reports and the findings of other authoritative bodies as well, and it breaks new ground with an interactive summary to highlight its findings.

How is this review different from others the Academies have produced? Most of the previous reports have followed the standard practice for a critical analysis of a complex issue: They have reviewed and relied almost exclusively on publications and data in the peer-reviewed, scientific literature. As Daniel Patrick Moynihan noted, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts, and facts are a good place to start. But this has led to dismissals by conspiracists who claim that science is bought and paid for or tainted by invalidating biases—all claims that have been shown to be without merit. But the latest NAS study took a slightly different approach. It did consult the peer-reviewed literature, but it also opened the door to the denizens of the fringes and actually invited and gave a respectful hearing to even the most unhinged, an approach that worried some in the scientific/policy community at the time.

But facts are stubborn things, and when the claims of the opponents are lined up against the facts, the cold-eyed verdict is clear. Safety, sustainability, and efficiency for humans, animals, and the environment are all improved by genetically modified crops. Nitpickers can find nits to pick, and the report correctly notes the difficulty of making generalizations, but then proceeds to make many, from which the overall conclusion is clear.

There is at least one area, though, where NAS delivered a confused verdict: on the issue of crop yields. The topic is explored in detail in Chapter 4, and the complexity of the issue is conveyed in some media reports, while others have wrongly reported NAS found no yield benefits from GM crops. In its discussion, the report considers the relationship between yield increases and rates of yield increase in a clumsy manner that almost recalls one of the more shamefully misleading misfires from those opposed to GMOs in recent memory. In that case, opponents tried to argue that because GM crops have not increased the theoretical maximum crop yields (ignoring and setting aside the dramatic increases in practical yields), they were a failure. But such sophistry fails to persuade when set against the concrete experiences of farmers around the world. A study of their experience has shown average yield gains of 13.1 percent for farmers growing biotech-improved, insect-resistant corn (maize) and 17.3 percent for cotton, with significant, though variable, yield gains (depending on weed pressures) for superior weed control with herbicide tolerant crops. That same review of results found that, “The total farm income benefit of $150.3 billion was divided almost equally between farmers in developing (51%) and developed countries (49%).” And while this study, and other similar studies that came before, were made available to the NAS Committee, they were somehow overlooked in the Chapter 4 discussions. But the Committee explicitly acknowledged the widespread and substantial yield increases in Chapter 6 (on page 278), while citing the conclusions of the most comprehensive meta-analysis to date. And of course, without those yield increases, achieved largely by giving farmers better tools to repel insect pests and manage weeds, it would be difficult to explain the explosive uptake of biotech-improved seeds by farmers around the world, wherever they’ve been able to gain access to them legally or otherwise, or to fathom their improved economic fortunes as a consequence.

Opening the door to the fringe elements has produced a watershed moment. While the resulting NAS report has reaffirmed its numerous prior examinations that reached the same consensus, this one leaves those opposing GMOs on unhappy ground. Having once again addressed all safety concerns, and forever vanquished any claims that issues or complaints have been ignored, the only objections that remain have to do with issues rooted in something other than data. Among those who remain intransigent in their denial and opposition are some driven by narrow self-interest (such as the organic marketers who fuel unwarranted fears to grow their market share), and some driven by tribalism or emotion. But these are no bases for public policy and provide a poor foundation for economic uplift. Let us hope governments of the world take note.

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About the author

L. Val Giddings is a senior fellow at ITIF with three decades of experience in science and regulatory policy relating to biotechnology innovations in agriculture and biomedicine. He is also president and CEO of PrometheusAB, Inc., providing consulting services on biotechnology issues to governments, multilateral organizations, and industry clients. Before founding PrometheusAB, he served eight years as vice president for food and agriculture at the Biotechnology Industry Organization and a decade as a regulatory official with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Giddings received his Ph.D. in genetics and evolutionary biology from the University of Hawaii in 1980.
  • dogctor

    What the NAS reaffirmed is that it is a corrupt political institution who hired incompetents & industry-associated “scientists” to participate in a Kabuki Dance for science illiterates. NSA embarrassed itself in the eyes of anyone familiar with the literature-which is not farmers or industrial lobbyists like you. The best NAS deserves for making a joke of science is to be the butt of sarcasm http://beachvetlbc.blogspot.com/2016/05/dirty-dancing.html

  • First Officer

    Tidally speaking, tonight’s new moon is about as effective as a full moon.

  • First Officer

    Here, here! Actual, not potential, yields are the only yields we get to eat.

  • Jason

    Odd how none of the world’s major scientific institutions seem to agree with you. I wonder why?

  • RobertWager

    Always enlightening when Ena visits. The conspiracies run deep in this one.

  • razorjack

    It is not surprising to see the NAS report on this.

    National Academy is taking funding from biotechnology firms and using “pro-GMO scientists” to write its reports.

    Notable Biotech Corporate Donations to the National Academy of Sciences NAS Donor and Amount:
    Monsanto $1-$5 million
    DuPont $1-$5 million
    Dow Chemical $1-$5 million

    Companies and Industry Associations on the NRC Board Overseeing GMO Projects, 1987-Present:
    Monsanto
    DuPont
    Biotechnology Industry Organization (BIO)
    Calgene
    Cargill
    General Mills
    Novus International
    Nestlé Purina
    Pioneer Hi-Bred

    2014-2016 NRC Committee Members With Ties to Industry or GMO Advocacy

    David Stelly – Texas A&M – Research collaborator with Monsanto, Bayer, Dow Agrosciences

    Neal Stewart – University of Tennessee – Consulted for Dow Agrosciences and Syngenta 36 patents on GMOs

    Richard Dixon – University of North Texas – Consulted for Monsanto four times; received more than $1 million from biotech industry for research has patents on GMOs

    Bob Whitake – Produce Marketing Association – Works for organization sponsored by Monsanto and Bayer

    Karen Hokanson – Donald Danforth Plant Science Center – Consults with Monsanto-sponsored organizations and a pro-GMO group

    Bruce Hamaker – Purdue University – Director of research center funded by biotech industry

    Richard Amasino – University of Wisconsin Patents on GMOs – He also engages in pro-GMO political advocacy

    Dominique Brossard – University of Wisconsin – Previously worked for a Monsanto-partner organization that helps commercialize GMOs advocates in media in favor of GMO

    Peter Kareiva – The Nature Conservancy – Works for organization that receives millions of dollars from biotech companies these companies also sit on a Nature Conservancy advisory board

    Robin Buell – Michigan State University – Involved in GMO development.
    patent related to GMOs

    Jose Farck-Zepeda – International Food Policy Research Institute – Works for organization that supports GMOs; collaborates with industry supporters on research advocating use of GMOs in Africa

    Kevin Pixley – International Maize and Wheat Improvement Center – Research collaborator with Syngenta Foundation works for organization that supports and develops GMOs

    The report I cited contains much more of the same.
    http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/sites/default/files/ib_1605_nrcinfluence-final-web_0.pdf

  • Debbie Owen

    “Opening the door to fringe elements..”, in other words considering the industry funded “studies” not made available for public scrutiny. Nothing suspicious there, right? (sarcasm) The industries own scientists write the reports and the NAS gets funding from the biotech industries. Yep, nothing independent about it, the NAS report is not credible at all.

  • http://annieorganie.com/ Anne Temple

    Maybe they should go for a bakers dozen and reaffirm it two more times. Won’t change the fact that GM technology for growing our food has been a complete and total disaster, for the animals, for the humans and for the planet. Give it up guys. And I would like to know what the color of the skies are in your world where you think the NAS is a credible source for information?

  • patzagame

    “But facts are stubborn things, and when the claims of the opponents are lined up against the facts, the cold-eyed verdict is clear.
    Safety, sustainability, and efficiency for humans, animals, and the
    environment are all improved by genetically modified crops.” …REALLY? That’s hilarious! Improves the habitat for monarchs?Improves the habitat for bees?Nothing sustainable about mono cropping.Safety for humans?LOL,what’s so safe about ingesting glyphosate and Bt toxins for babies and children?Those are your FACTS and the verdict is CLEAR???The majority of GMO crops do nothing but poison the population.

  • SageThinker

    Glyphosate is in much of our food now. Chemical weeding is efficient but results in produce containing glyphosate.

  • patzagame

    Sage,Don’t forget,Bt insecticidal toxins work so much better when they’re incorporated in our food crops!What could be better than an herbicide/insecticide GMO phood product?

  • Jason

    Yes. Really.

  • Jason

    Disaster? I’m just dying to hear the rational behind that. Indulge me.

  • JoeFarmer

    “Won’t change the fact that GM technology for growing our food has been a
    complete and total disaster, for the animals, for the humans and for
    the planet.”

    LMAO!

    How about you share your awesome knowledge of agriculture and explain in detail, dippy?

  • JoeFarmer

    “Nothing sustainable about mono cropping”

    OK genius, tell us about what a vineyard or an apple orchard is.

    LMAO!

  • JoeFarmer

    “Glyphosate is in much of our food now.”

    And you base that claim on what, exactly, Sagey? How about some citations?

  • JoeFarmer

    Can you describe what event led to your traumatic brain injury?

  • JoeFarmer

    So where is your peer-reviewed research to the contrary, BDDO*?

    * BDDO means, “Brain Dead Debbie Owen.

  • JoeFarmer

    Can you describe what event led to your traumatic brain injury?

  • JoeFarmer

    LMAO!

    You people are as desperate as the anti-vaxers and the chemtrailers.

    Pathetic.

  • JoeFarmer

    Really?

    Psycho-nutbar Ena, the cat groomer, is brave enough to show her face again?

    Wut up, Ena?

    You wanna play like you know nephrology again, or did you forget how you got smacked-down the last time you tried that?

  • razorjack

    You are certainly exposing your flaccid pitiful failure here tonight, Porky.

  • Eric Bjerregaard

    The best source you could come up with is your own blog??? Not very convincing.

  • Eric Bjerregaard

    Yes, fringe elements, as is evidence by the comments made by you and Ena.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    You are a complete fʊcktard. I see your website is even promoting anti-fluoride conspiracy theories. Do all of humanity a favour by sticking your head in a lit gas oven.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    g’day one-eyed Ted.

  • SageThinker

    It’s true. You’re a lying liar for those unfamiliar with you. There’s glyphosate in much food because it’s a systemic herbicide sprayed on HT Roundup Ready crops. You claim that’s not true? Seriously, is that your claim? Clarify.

  • SageThinker

    You’re low, Joe.

  • SageThinker

    You’re an abusive chemical industry troll. Great.

  • SageThinker

    You’re an abusive chemical industry troll, you have no shame.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    wtf? Are you anti-fluoride, Sage?

  • JoeFarmer

    When are you going to take an elementary statistics course, Sage?

  • Debbie Owen

    You’re actually pretending not to know that? LOL, that tactic will never work.

  • Debbie Owen

    How about you do your own research? You obviously need to if you think glyphosate isn’t in much of our food.

  • JoeFarmer

    You never did say when you’re planning to take that elementary statistics course.

    Any update?

  • Debbie Owen

    I don’t think you have a clue what you are talking about.

  • JoeFarmer

    Back up your claim, Sagey.

    You said, “Glyphosate is in much of our food now.” Prove it.

    Otherwise it’s just unbalanced ranting on your part. Ball’s in your court.

  • JoeFarmer

    So you can’t support that claim, either.

    Not a surprise coming from you, BDDO (Brain Dead Debbie Owen).

  • JoeFarmer

    BDDO, this is pretty simple.

    Either you or Sagey the wanna-be hippy can back up the claim that, “Glyphosate is in much of our food now” or you can’t.

    Let’s see the proof.

  • Debbie Owen

    The “fringe elements” weren’t peer reviewed studies, so why are you asking for peer reviewed now? Oh right, it doesn’t matter if studies are peer reviewed, industry funded and kept hidden from public scrutiny as long as they support your agenda.

  • Debbie Owen

    That’s what he’s known for, I don’t expect anything else from him, that’s all he’s got. He is also known as someone who defends the poisoning of our food supply.

  • JoeFarmer

    So once again, you have nothing to back up your claims.

    That’s not a surprise, BDDO,

  • JoeFarmer

    Let’s see you prove your claim that the food supply is being poisoned, BDDO.

    Of course, you can’t do that, so you’ll be forced to deflect somehow. I wonder what weak form of deflection you’ll employ?

  • Debbie Owen

    Even fake farmers should know that glyphosate is in much of our food, but in your case maybe not.

  • JoeFarmer

    Ah, so you can’t prove your claim, so you try to run the old, tired and completely ineffective, “fake farmer” meme.

    You are a simpleton, BDDO.

  • Debbie Owen

    It’s easy to find the proof if you look. Crops sprayed with roundup (which doesn’t wash off) end up in our food supply, in many different food products. Do you know how to add 2+2?

  • Debbie Owen

    I told you before, if you don’t like being called a fake farmer then you can stop being one, it’s your choice.

  • JoeFarmer

    Keep making your childish attempts at deflection, BDDO,

    It’s telling that you can’t back up your claim that, “glyphosate is in much of our food”.

    Why do you have to make stuff up to support your bankrupt agricultural-creationist ideology?

    It’s really pathetic.

  • JoeFarmer

    If it’s so easy, show a link to tests that back up your claim, BDDO!

    I’m waiting…

  • Debbie Owen

    You often defend the poisoning of our food supply and now you pretend to not know glyphosate is in much of our food. It’s even in our bodies now, how do you think it got there if it wasn’t ingested? Of course it’s in our food, in many food products. Have you ever really looked at labels? Many food products contain corn and soy contaminated with glyphosate.

  • Debbie Owen

    You have been told over and over again. I’ll make it simple for you, glyphosate is poison, glyphosate is in our food, people eat food contaminated with the poison glyphosate. And 2+2=4.

  • JoeFarmer

    Wrong again, BDDO.

    I didn’t think you’d be able to back up your specious claims, and I was right.

  • JoeFarmer

    The food supply isn’t being poisoned, BDDO.

    If it were, you’d be able to provide proof. But you didn’t.

  • Debbie Owen

    I think it’s a little childish of you to pretend to be a farmer, but that’s your choice. When people see the way you respond to others I doubt many will take you seriously anyway. And the tactic of pretending to not know that glyphosate is in many food products won’t fool anyone. Everybody can just google “roundup in our food” and find all kinds of evidence from several sources.

  • JoeFarmer

    “I think…”

    That’s your problem, BDDO, You are incapable of doing that in any meaningful way.

    And you still haven’t supported your specious claims.

  • Debbie Owen

    Glyphosate, which is now found in our blood stream, is poison. That means people are being slowly poisoned with glyphosate. Again, 2+2=4.

  • JoeFarmer

    Let’s see some proof of your claims, BDDO.

  • Debbie Owen

    Which part are you claiming is wrong? That glyphosate is poison? That glyphosate is in our food? That people eat food contaminated with the poison glyphosate? Are you denying that glyphosate is now found in our bodies? Or perhaps you don’t believe 2+2=4?

  • Debbie Owen

    2+2=4

  • Debbie Owen

    2+2+4

  • Debbie Owen

    2+2=4

  • JoeFarmer

    Can you show that, “glyphosate is poison”?

    There is absolutely nothing on the label for RoundUp Powermax II that says anything about “poison”. I just looked at the tote in my shop and nada. Nothing about “poison” in the 26 page documentation that came with it, either.

    Until you can post something from a legitimate source that supports your claim, I’m going to conclude that you’re just making stuff up again.

  • JoeFarmer

    Let’s see some support for your specious claims.

  • JoeFarmer

    Sorry, but that doesn’t support your specious claims. Try again.

  • JoeFarmer

    You already posted that. It doesn’t support your specious claims.

    I’m still waiting…

  • Eric Bjerregaard

    How would you know? miss copy and paste without understanding

  • Eric Bjerregaard

    You are an abusive troll that refuses to understand what Chris Preston taught you.

  • Eric Bjerregaard

    How do the levels compare with the MRLs?

  • SageThinker

    Well if you want to talk about one single example, a study came out and I think 2014 that tested levels of glyphosate in 10 samples of GMO soy beans. The levels were about three milligrams per kilogram.

  • SageThinker

    I am not an abusive person. I sometimes respond to people who are abusive with a simple bugger off kind of message but that’s not starting abuse, that is simply exerting a boundary. And, Chris did not teach me anything because Chris is full of crap here and is spewing some nonsense. I have explained exactly what I meant by the toxicology flaws in the EPA memos and the Monsanto papers from the 1980s. It’s pretty basic stuff and there are problems with it.

  • SageThinker

    I don’t need to. I understand the basics of Toxicology and anybody can look at Raw data and come to some forms of conclusions based upon them. You don’t even need to know the complex formulas for doing the P value calculations, although it helps a bit, but you can see from the data that there are correlations that have been glossed over by the fancy footwork fakery interpretations done by the lawyer in of Monsanto in consultation with the EPA. Trail of communication is even partly embedded within the several memos, 1985, 1986, and 1991.

  • SageThinker

    And by the way if it makes any difference to you, I have taken basic stats, and I have actually used them in quantitative work in sociology in a higher field of study, but that’s neither here nor there because I don’t believe in credentialism. But if you want credentials I could deliver them to you, but I don’t stoop to that level. Essentially it’s a simple case of 4 treatment groups with numbers of tumors per treatment group, and that’s pretty damn easy to see. It’s not like some complex thing that you need to mine patterns from.

  • SageThinker

    I based that claim on numerous studies including a 2005 study on nearly every major crop grown, that tested glyphosate residue in the crap produce, and it was done by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization. You can find it with a simple Google search dude. Very easy to find, and there are also a couple of other sources that report measured glyphosate levels in soybean crops. And I would prefer not to be called Sagey, ok Joey?

  • SageThinker

    Look up dude, you lost the game. You asked me to back up a claim that is so easily backed up. Why did you even ask that? Did you have doubt about it? You kind of lost the game dude.

  • JoeFarmer

    If you took a statistics course, it sure doesn’t show.

  • JoeFarmer

    Clearly you don’t understand a thing about toxicology.

  • JoeFarmer

    If it’s so easy to back up, why won’t you do it?

  • JoeFarmer

    Sorry, but that statement doesn’t support your claim.

    Basic logic seems to escape you.

  • SageThinker

    Glyphosate is in the food that is produced by farming with Roundup Ready crops. Glyphosate is in the food produce. How does that not support my statement that glyphosate is in the food we eat? It does, I love you explain somehow better how the logic does not hold up, I just don’t get what you’re trying to say dude. What are the resources that I gave was the 2005 glyphosate residue study by the UN FAO. That very very long list of residues in food crops also contains processing factories that shows that glyphosate is it also in processed foods to some degree. Sometimes it’s more concentrated and sometimes it’s less concentrated in the process product. So unless you have a better way to explain what you mean I kinda think you’re just bluffing and you’re just being a jerk.

  • SageThinker

    I did. Look at all the comments here.

  • SageThinker

    Why do you even want it backed up? Do you have any doubt about it at all? Do you want me to also prove that the word is means what it means? Do you want me to prove that food exists? Do you want me to prove that food crops growing requires water? Cuz I didn’t provide sources that it requires water, so maybe you doubt that?

  • SageThinker

    Clearly you are simply a troll making stupid unfounded statement to try to discredit people that you dislike because they crossed your industry aligned agenda. That’s pretty darn obvious dude and a thousand other people can call that out too if they read these comments here.

  • SageThinker

    Well I don’t know what you do every single day but apparently you spend an awful lot of time sitting at some keyboard trying to convince people that glyphosate is not present in food that is growing with glyphosate. Anyway I have to get to work because that’s what I do. I’m a working person who has specific concerns and I voice them in my spare hour now and then.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Easy there, Daft Tinkler, Mr. glass house resident, when so recklessly throwing the “liar” stone. I mean, you do recall prevaricating recently when you claimed to be a scientist, then a farmer, then a carpenter. And you did get caught sneaking back and editing your comments, the better to craftily delude the casual reader. You look preposterous with your pants on fire taunting someone who actually knows what he’s talking about. You need to bring facts, data, peer reviewed research, not just make up a bunch of nonsense you think you might remember from somewhere. We all know your memory is as versatile as your imagination.

  • SageThinker

    You know, what you’ve done there is called name-calling and straw man argument a shin and Miss representation. I have on occasion edited comments, as is allowed and enabled by this forum software. What’s the problem with that? I correct the grammar or freezing sometimes and occasionally I soft in a comment where I just told someone to bugger off. And I do use quite often very good and reliable sources to back up things that I say which I have learned from good and reliable sources to begin with. I have read hundreds of papers from peer-reviewed journals about glyphosate. I know what I’m talking about and you’re just basically trying to discredit me. But you know what? That boomerangs and backfires right at you. So sorry so sorry so sorry you said sad troll.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    And that’s why he grandiosely considers himself as a “sage thinker” because, you see, his lofty opinions are free to soar unimpeded, never needlessly shackled by nuisance claptrap like science, toxicology, statistical analysis, professional ethics, first hand experience, logic, facts…

    Oh, it’s a beautiful thing, man!

  • http://annieorganie.com/ Anne Temple

    You’re making me cry. Why are you so mean? Must be all those toxins in your body.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Oh, bull pucky! Why don’t you simply whip out the pertinent citations from among those “hundreds” of peer-reviewed papers you’ve consistently managed to misinterpret? Just do that instead of telling us how “sage” you think you are. We know you’re slippery as rape seed oil, but “sage”?. Ha, more like oregano or dill. Or nutmeg, a fake wooden nutmeg.

  • Dominick Dickerson

    No Debbie the dose makes the poison. People are no more poisoned by trace amounts of glyphosate than they are by consuming the table salt you put in your food.

  • Herbert West

    The fake farmer who supports GMO, vaccines, whatever he/she is paid to pretend to support.

  • JoeFarmer

    Put up or shut up, Herbert.

  • Herbert West

    Put up what? I just did, you are a fraud.

  • Herbert West

    Says the “farmer”. Good stuff Joey.

  • RobertWager

    Sage. Are you now ready to bring your evidence forward?

  • RobertWager

    I seem to remember you claiming (2 days ago) you could demonstrate the science I present to be incorrect. I am still waiting for your evidence that we can discuss.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    “Why do you even want it backed up?”

    Hmmm, that should be painfully obvious. When some known phony baloney tub of guts tells you a falsehood, well you just naturally want to see some proof. It’s sort of a law of self preservation when in the presence of poseurs like you, it’s basic to the art of survival.

  • RobertWager

    Hi Sage. Are you ready to present your evidence of my “incorrect science” now?

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Oh look, Debbie took the same statistics course Sage did! Looks like they were study partners. Very impressive!

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Off to work doing what, you’re a statistician now? Oh, Bwaahaahaahahahaha!
    First you’re a scientist, then a farmer, then a carpenter, now a statistics genius. I doubt all of it. The better guess would be you’re chronically unemployed and unemployable, managed to bluff your way onto partial disability and now you sit in your mom’s basement all day getting wasted, pounding a keyboard and humiliating yourself. Such a shame, a mind (however feeble) is a terrible thing to waste.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    2+2+4 — Holy crap, Batman, there it is again! The patented formula that proves woo is true. It’s the recent work of statistical genius! Puny discoveries like e=mc2 pale by comparison. We owe a debt of gratitude. Our civilization takes a quantum leap…backward.

    Oh, oops, wait a minute…2+2″plus”4? Shit, that doesn’t make any sense at all. Oh, Bwaaahaahaahaahahaha! Our resident statistical geniuses hoist on their own petard, once again.

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ……He is a stalker and a
    hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to
    function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help
    himself.

  • JoeFarmer

    Prove it, Herbert.

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ……He is a stalker and a hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to
    function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help
    himself.

  • razorjack

    TRANSLATION: Legitimate source = Any source that supports the GMO pesticide industry agenda. Any other source will be called not legitimate by the industry PR astroturfers who are dispatched to spin the narrative and deceive the readers

  • razorjack

    Nonsense.

    Tables salt is acutely toxic but people ingest it over a lifetime without any health problems and they would die without it.

    Glyphosate is a chronically toxic from the smallest dose up but it slowly degrades your body at the cellular level until the weakest system breaks down and the system dies.

  • Rob Bright

    Everyone knows you’re a pro-GMO, pro-Agrochemical industry activist and spokesperson, Wager. You promote misinformation and pseudoscience at best, like a good propagandist and corporate meat puppet…

  • Sally Blackmore

    Wow — you really are a moron. If you are going to do it in a gas oven it is supposed to be unlit. That fluoride must be getting to you.

  • Sally Blackmore

    Wow — they must have given you a new troll manual, or you really are getting frustrated, cause it seems all you can do now is name call. And you spend way to much time online to actually be a farmer.

  • Sally Blackmore

    OK — what is glyphosate? Explain it to me. I would like to know if you understand how it works.

  • Sally Blackmore

    Look at the patent on it, Sherlock. Right on the page it says it is a BIOCIDE. And no, I won’t do your work for you.

  • StopGMO

    And you are completely out of control! Shame on you. Flagged!

  • Sally Blackmore

    Actually — here it is — sounds like a poison to me.

    “4. Biocide. U.S. patent number 7771736 B2 filed: August 29, 2003; awarded: August 10, 2010.

    Same as #3 with additional classifications (biocide class 424/405; international: A01N37/00):

    U.S. Classification 424/405, 504/206, 514/563, 514/574

    International Classification A01N37/00, A61K31/19, A01N57/18, A01N57/02, A01N37/12,

    A01N35/08,A61K31/66, A01N37/44, A01N25/00

    Cooperative Classification A61K31/19, A61K31/66

    European Classification A61K31/19, A61K31/66

    Biocide: Any substance or mixture of substances intended for preventing, destroying, or

    mitigating any living organism (e.g., plant, animal). Examples of a biocide are: acaricide,

    arthropodicide, fungicide, insecticide, molluscicide, rodenticide.”

  • StopGMO

    JoeFarmer is a narcissistic bully!

  • razorjack

    Yes, and it’s not only Wager. It’s fake farmer, goonlite, farmer in the dell, first officer, jason, and Eric. All of them well known industry PR astroturfers who are dispatched here to try and spin the narrative and deceive the readers about the real facts.

    Their industry is desperate and paranoid and that’s why the bring their abusive low life ignorance and thuggery here.

  • razorjack

    All Cris Preston has taught here is the fact that he and the rest of you industry thug are desperate to try and spin the facts and deceive the readers with your well documented lies.

  • razorjack

    That’s all he has, but he desperately needs a diversion to try and deceive the readers here.

  • Eric Bjerregaard

    Looks at the S Sage, That would not indicate one study. Especially one that you choose. It refers to MRLs, plural.

  • Eric Bjerregaard

    “Bugger off? Seems I remember a few different terms being used by you. “basic stuff?” Why has it not been reproduced by the anti g.e./glyphosate folks? Why don’t lots of farmers have glyphosate related health problems? Why has no causative mechanism been found for all the problems you imagine are occurring?

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    I’m sorry to hear the lit gas oven oven didn’t work out for you, Sally. Did you consider turning up the heat?

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    Lol, you also think vaccines are poison. You another great candidate for a retrospective abortion.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    Herbert West has a new account and most of his comments are anti-vax tropes. The anti-GMers we see on Disqus are like zombies that have accidentally strayed off the set of The Walking Dead.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    Seven thousand comments on Disqus plus your activity on twitter, youtube, wikipedia, wordpress etc etc. That is a little more than “now and then”.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    You lie through your teeth all the time. You sometimes claim to be a scientist and you’ve claimed that synthetic and natural chemicals are different. These are just two of your lies. You also engage in immoral fear mongering, for example your various posts in which you sought to link Zika virus symptoms to the Tdap vaccine.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    I have read hundreds of papers from peer-reviewed journals about glyphosate. I know what I’m talking about and you’re just basically trying to discredit me.

    Yet the scientists you have had discussions with, including those with no skin in the game such as the League of Nerds guys, dismiss you as a crank. Occam’s Razor tells me you are a fool.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    So says poor one-eyed Ted.

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ……He is a stalker and a
    hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to
    function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help
    himself. ….

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ……He is a stalker and a hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help himself. ….

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ……He is a stalker and a hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help himself. …. …

  • gskibum

    Yes, I would also like to see your citation.

  • Dominick Dickerson

    “Glyphosate is a chronically toxic from the smallest dose up but it slowly degrades your body at the cellular level until the weakest system breaks down and the system dies”

    That’s not how glyphosate works. Glyphosate functions by interrupting the function of an enzyme in the shikimate pathway causing a breakdown in amino acid synthesis. Human and animal cells do not contain the shikimate acid pathway since we do not produce amino acids endogenously but consume them in the form of food. Therefore glyphosate simply can not affect animal or human cells, hence its low toxicity.

    And there is no evidence that the insignificant concentrations of glyphosate residue potential encountered in our diets is anywhere close to the minimum inhibitory concentrations for human gut microbes and even if it were these microbes would simply source their requisite amino acids from with the digestive tract rather than from their endogenous pathway.

    Are you next going to start with other spurious/unvalidate nonsense from Samsel and seneff. Why don’t you repeat his garbage “glyphosate has an inverse dose relationship” claim. I think everyone could use a good laugh.

  • Debbie Owen

    Is the reason you didn’t respond directly to Sage because you don’t really want him to see your question?

  • Debbie Owen

    Ahh, what’s the matter, are you claiming there is no glyphosate in our food or is 2+2 difficult for you as well as the other fake farmer?

  • Debbie Owen

    For what? I already gave you the answer, glyphosate is in our food, it’s in our bodies and 2+2=4.

  • Debbie Owen

    What’s wrong Steve, are you just upset because everyone knows who you are now?

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Well, I’d never say never about anything, but I’ll accurately claim few of our foods here in North America contain significant or dangerous glyphosate residues. You would have to show evidence to support your claim to the contrary. Moreover, I will accurately claim nearly half of organic produce in the U.S. has tested positive for pesticide residues, 4% of organic produce has illegal pesticide residues. Watch carefully Debbie, I’m going to back up my claim like you should back up yours — here’s a link to the report:

    https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Pesticide%20Residue%20Testing_Org%20Produce_2010-11PilotStudy.pdf

    There you go, easy peasy, now just get a grownup to read it to you and you can learn something, your day will not be a total waste! You might also want to get an arithmetic tutor so you can advance beyond 2+2, get all the way up to summing columns of 3 digit numbers, maybe even take a whack at times tables and those mind bending ‘gazintas’, you know, two gazinta four two times…three gazinta nine three times…

  • RobertWager

    And yet you have never been able to demonstrate a single fact I have presented (there are a lot of them over the past 16 years) to be incorrect. All you ever do is ad hominem attacks. very telling to those who are watching

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Ah, no, you didn’t give the answer, you gave your agenda-bound opinion (and reasserted for the 5th or 6th time your less-than-scintillating pre-school level prowess at reciting arithmetic). Now back up your claims with a several credible references. Just post some direct links so we all can be as certain as you think you are. Just do that.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    And there are plenty of us watching…and laughing…as Razorjoke and his sibling sockpuppets make an ass of their puppetmaster. Sort of a low budget Sesame Street satire.

  • RobertWager

    What? It is very clear that Sage claimed to have evidence the science I presented is incorrect and then when pressed to bring that very evidence forward we get silence from Sage.

    You and I “dance” on a regular basis on forums that discuss GE crops and derived foods, Perhaps you would like to debate the science Debbie?

  • JoeFarmer

    That doesn’t prove your claim, BDDO. Try again.

  • JoeFarmer

    Absolutely meaningless.

  • JoeFarmer

    I seriously doubt you have the gray matter between your ears to even begin to understand.

  • JoeFarmer

    Yawn…

    How about you share your extensive agricultural knowledge and tell me what I should be doing in my fields right now, citiot.

  • JoeFarmer

    OK, Grandpa Fester, I guess you’re going to have to live with just copying and pasting another one of your brainless memes, rather than show any actual evidence that glyphosate is, “poison”.

  • razorjack

    Nice cut and paste.

    Here’s what Scientist Anthony Samsel says:

    There are no safe levels of glyphosate. It is a synthetic amino acid analogue of glycine that destroys the cell at the molecular level. In other words you are being destroyed a cell at a time until you reach criticality and then its too late ..

    Monsanto’s own studies showed destruction of all of the glands and organs. The basement membranes which are rich in glycine were destroyed because Glyphosate is an amino acid analogue of glycine which substitutes for our own forming peptoids. The glyphosate peptoids are small proteins which due to the phosphonate group induce cell death like other phosphonates ….. that’s why Monsanto found so much destruction in all glands and organs and also why glyphosate was found to bioaccumulate in all tissues including the brain. By the way glyphosate causes misfolded proteins through misincorporation the same as other misincorporated amino acids. This is not new its just never been discussed …..

    We are not talking about toxicity as in the dose makes the poison… Glyphosate does not have a dose response relationship, it has an inverse one…Glyphosate causes destruction of the cell. The phosphonate group induces apoptosis. Monsanto found that GLYPHOSATE caused ACHROMATIC lesions of the cells or gaps (breaks) in the CHROMOSOMES (DNA strand breaks) of the test animals …

    Monsanto studies show that 30 to 35 % of glyphosate is well retained, the beta half-life of which is 7 to 14 days. That means glyphosate can circulate in your biology for about a month. Of the 30-35% approximately better than 1% bioaccumulates in all tissues highest in the bone and bone marrow. Monsanto found glyphosate caused statistically significant achromatic lesions in bone marrow over the experiments solvent controls …. The balance of the glyphosate is passed in the excreta i.e feces and urine. Some glyphosate does metabolize, 6 metabolites were found as well as 4 additional new synthetic amino acids which can also metabolize. Carcinogenic N-Nitrosoglyphosate was found to increase over glyphosate fed residues, as were others. Bottom line is that the retained glyphosate is also responsible for the destruction of the cells of glands, organs and tissues. Destroy the cells of the glands and organs and it directly affects functionality and this leads to numerous diseases … This destruction occurs at the molecular level. There should be no residues of herbicides in our food supply…..

  • razorjack

    Nonsense, Wager. You have no facts. All you have is industry spin and lies and your links are usually to industry controlled PR astroturf sites promoting junk pseudo-science and industry propaganda.

    You also refuse to tell us who your university get the funding from to pay a “lab assistant” who’s job description is to do “outreach” using industry PR designed scripts and spin to promote the GMO pesticide industry political agenda.

  • razorjack

    I don’t know who Grandpa Fester is, Porky

    Smart people know I’ve posted a ton of actual evidence. I am not responsible for your inability to understand the proof or your unwillingness to accept anything that doesn’t support your industry agenda.

    Scientist Anthony Samsel says:

    There are no safe levels of glyphosate. It is a synthetic amino acid analogue of glycine that destroys the cell at the molecular level. In other words you are being destroyed a cell at a time until you reach criticality and then its too late ..

    Monsanto’s own studies showed destruction of all of the glands and organs. The basement membranes which are rich in glycine were destroyed because Glyphosate is an amino acid analogue of glycine which substitutes for our own forming peptoids. The glyphosate peptoids are small proteins which due to the phosphonate group induce cell death like other phosphonates ….. that’s why Monsanto found so much destruction in all glands and organs and also why glyphosate was found to bioaccumulate in all tissues including the brain. By the way glyphosate causes misfolded proteins through misincorporation the same as other misincorporated amino acids. This is not new its just never been discussed …..

    We are not talking about toxicity as in the dose makes the poison… Glyphosate does not have a dose response relationship, it has an inverse one…Glyphosate causes destruction of the cell. The phosphonate group induces apoptosis. Monsanto found that GLYPHOSATE caused ACHROMATIC lesions of the cells or gaps (breaks) in the CHROMOSOMES (DNA strand breaks) of the test animals …

    Monsanto studies show that 30 to 35 % of glyphosate is well retained, the beta half-life of which is 7 to 14 days. That means glyphosate can circulate in your biology for about a month. Of the 30-35% approximately better than 1% bioaccumulates in all tissues highest in the bone and bone marrow. Monsanto found glyphosate caused statistically significant achromatic lesions in bone marrow over the experiments solvent controls …. The balance of the glyphosate is passed in the excreta i.e feces and urine. Some glyphosate does metabolize, 6 metabolites were found as well as 4 additional new synthetic amino acids which can also metabolize. Carcinogenic N-Nitrosoglyphosate was found to increase over glyphosate fed residues, as were others. Bottom line is that the retained glyphosate is also responsible for the destruction of the cells of glands, organs and tissues. Destroy the cells of the glands and organs and it directly affects functionality and this leads to numerous diseases … This destruction occurs at the molecular level. There should be no residues of herbicides in our food supply…..

  • Debbie Owen

    What part are you pretending not to believe? That glyphosate is in our food and ends up in our bodies or that 2+2=4?

  • Debbie Owen

    How about just the simple fact that the poison glyphosate is hidden in our food and can’t be washed off? How about the simple fact that the poison ends up in our blood stream? Maybe you don’t have a problem with being slowly poisoned but many of us care about the quality of our food.

  • Debbie Owen

    First of all any amount of glyphosate in our food is too much. Second of all, glyphosate isn’t allowed to be used in organic crops and if it is found there it is most likely from contamination. By the way, I will continue to keep it simple for the fake farmers posting here, one of which doesn’t know 2+2.

  • RobertWager

    Lets start with this fact. 99.99% of the toxins you consume on a daily basis are from natural sources. http://www.pnas.org/content/87/19/7777.full.pdf

    Toxicology 101: the dose makes the poison and the levels of glyphosate people are exposed to in their food are miniscule compared to doses that actually cause harm.

    I look forward to your reply.

  • Debbie Owen

    If you don’t even know how to use google then I can’t help you.

  • RobertWager

    Or the presence of glyphosate is from producers using conventional means to grow the food and then falsely selling the food as organic. The last USDA report found over 40% of organic food tested had levels of conventional pesticides that one finds on conventioanl food products.

  • RobertWager

    Can you supply the citation for the paper that found glyphosate in blood please.

  • Debbie Owen

    I admit it was a typo, I did mean to post 2+2=4, but 2+2+4 is still very simple math, which is the point you didn’t seem to get. Here is a little help for you since you can’t make sense out of simple math, 2+2+4=8. Oops! That might be way too complicated for you, we better just stick with 2+2.

  • Debbie Owen

    You compare apples to oranges, but poison is poison no matter the dose.

  • JoeFarmer

    LMAO! Samsel, huh?

    I thought you’d be making another brainless paste-job and you didn’t disappoint, Grandpa Fester!

  • JoeFarmer

    The original claim was, “glyphosate is in much of our food now.”

    And after all your brainless responses, you still haven’t validated that claim.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Well then, you’ve staked out your position, for once. So, tell us Debbie, if “any amount of glyphosate in our food is too much”, how much pesticide residue in organic food is too much? I suppose you would have to say any amount of pesticide residue in organic food is too much, especially since poor innocent grocery shoppers have been lied to and made to believe “organic” means no pesticides. Either you have to take that stance, Debbie, that is you’d have to proclaim any pesticide residue in organic food to be unacceptable or expose yourself as a hypocrite. Ah, what is a moral absolutist to do?

    http://www.vocativ.com/322584/gmo-denial-religion/

    So which is it Debbie, are you a rational thinker or one of those irrational True Believers?

  • Farmer with a Dell

    No problem, in fact let’s move ahead to algebra, if you’re feeling up to it.
    Here’s our base equation here:

    a + b = c

    Where
    a = Debbie Owen
    b = common sense fact
    c = hopeless confusion

    Wanna go for some geometry next, where you could explain your circular logic?

  • RobertWager

    Found the paper that claims to detect glyphosate in human urine. Interestingly the levels found are 0.5-2.0 ng/ml or for the average person approximately one part per billion or equivalent to one second in 32 years. Context is everything.

    Still haven’t found the citation for blood. do you have it handy?

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Yep, 1 ppb isn’t very concentrated. That would easily be considered a safe level even for people who drink a lot of urine on a daily basis. Like you say RW, context is everything – just sayin’…to dissipate the unfounded worries of our fear mongering friends, whatever their nasty habits or little idiosyncrasies.

  • razorjack

    All the other industry PR operative try to spin away Samsel’s science too, Porky

    He is going to testify before the EPA and members of Congress soon.

    You can keep spinning your GMO pesticide industry disinformation echo chamber goon squad lies and thuggish abuse but you can’t change the actual facts.

    You are a failure, Porky. Pitiful pathetic flaccid and impotent.

  • Dominick Dickerson

    That was word salad when he typed that and word salad now when you repasted here.

    You trolls are always good for a laugh.

  • JoeFarmer

    OK Grandpa Fester, you go with that.

  • scotty perey

    Waah, don’t forget me too! Just because I’ve been slacking a little in my PR-astroturfing lately doesn’t mean I deserve to be overlooked! I have a good excuse, OK? Monsanto gave me an all-expense-paid vacation to the French Riviera (which they actually secretly own with their fellow Illuminati) in honor and appreciation of my 666,000th pro-poison, pro-industry, pro-I-for-one-welcome-our-new-biotech-reptile-overlords propaganda post

  • razorjack

    Samsel will be testifying in front of the EPA and members of congress later this month.

    We all know industry PR astroturfers like you will always try and spin away any science that conflicts with your GMO pesticide industry agenda.

    The trolls here are you and the rest of the industry disinformation echo chamber goon squad members.

  • razorjack

    Who are you talking to, Porky?

    Better get a mental health exam, your going over the edge.

  • razorjack

    You didn’t have to mention it, because we all know you are one of them too. It rare to find anyone who supports the corrupt GMO pesticide industry agenda that isn’t and an industry PR astroturfers.

  • scotty perey

    Well, a little credit would be nice is all I’m saying… This is HARD WORK, trying to ruin the planet and kill off all the humans in preparation for my Masters’ imminent migration here, thanks in no small part to the utter brilliance and rocksolid argumentation emanating from the razorjacks of the world! I’m just glad I get paid per post! You and SageThunk and Doobie might be making life difficult for a poor shill such as myself, but that GMO food pellet that drops into my cage every time I post makes it all worthwhile! :)

  • patzagame

    pathetic pharmer pharts!

  • patzagame

    Its pharmer.

  • patzagame

    That’s your answer to thousands of acres of GE corn,soy,cotton,sugar beets??? You’re worse than pathetic! LMAO!

  • JoeFarmer

    I can show you all kinds of examples of successful monocropping – orchards, vineyards, rice paddies that are hundreds of years old, etc.

    What I was pointing out is that you don’t know anything about agriculture, so every time you make posts like, “teh ebil monocropping” shows that you have absolutely no clue.

    Now how about you show me from a legitimate source like the USDA Census of Agriculture, how many U.S. corn, soybean, cotton and sugar beet farmers are, “monocropping”? Please make sure you know and understand the difference between, “monocropping” (growing the same crop for multiple seasons in one given field) and “monoculture” (growing one crop for one season in one field).

    I’m sure your answer will be as clueless as ever, but I try to hold out hope…

  • JoeFarmer

    No, it’s a legitimate question.

  • JoeFarmer

    I’m talking to you, Grandpa Fester.

  • RobertWager

    Perhaps you would like to demonstrate where i got the science wrong. It seems Sage’s claim to be able to has hit a snag.

  • JoeFarmer

    You and Herbert are equally brain-dead.

    Thanks for playing, though.

  • JoeFarmer

    Gee, Grandpa Fester, make sure and let everyone know when Samsel has his day in the sun!

    If he doesn’t spontaneously combust first, that is.

    I have CSPAN and CSPAN2 on satellite, so let me know when I should schedule my DVR!

  • razorjack

    Troll, flagged

  • razorjack

    Nobody cares what a narcissistic https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/284df125a3c37f0f81f8099973d0470282bd2d804818f44eff93b3de3a8c0639.jpg little bully boy like you think, Porky, Here’s a picture of you with your little backdoor buddy.

  • JoeFarmer

    Cute, Grandpa Fester.

    But utterly ineffective in convincing anyone to be part of your incestuous agricultural creationist cult.

  • razorjack

    All the silly boys try and make it about others, Porky.

    We all see what kind of a man you are on these threads.

    Karma sucks sometimes

  • JoeFarmer

    OK, Grandpa Fester. You keep telling yourself that.

    D.A. Froelich won’t have the least problem kicking your case up to the Feds – that’s the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin.

    Once they find those missing boys in your barn, it’s game-over for you.

  • razorjack

    What are you babbling about, Porky?

    Have you been drinking your self into psychosis again?

  • JoeFarmer

    Keep telling yourself that, Grandpa Fester.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    … anybody can look at Raw data and come to some forms of conclusions based upon them.

    That claim is false and undermines your credibility. Most people have a very poor innate understanding of statistics as thew Nobel Prize winning psychologist, Daniel Kahneman, notes in Thinking, Fast and Slow. You have repeatedly demonstrated your own remarkable statistical ineptitude by misinterpreting the significance of the data you post.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    You’ll die waiting.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    Drama Queen.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    One-eyed Ted, I’ve seen you post chemtrail conspiracy theory nonsense on your sad, friendless FB page. You are strange and creepy.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    What’s wrong Debbie, are you upset because Ted is too old and dilapidated to get a leg over?

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    Debbie has many police citations so you’ll need to be much more specific …

  • gskibum

    I said I would like to see YOUR citation. i.e. the thing that led you to arrive at YOUR conclusion.

  • Herbert West

    +10!

  • Debbie Owen

    Use your brain and try to arrive at your your own conclusion.

  • Debbie Owen

    Does your family know what you do here?

  • Herbert West

    JoePharmer, prove that you are not a fraud.

  • JoeFarmer

    Thanks for proving once and for all, and in only one sentence that you’re a complete idiot.

  • Herbert West

    Your fake username is the best of all….’maybe if I use a username that has the word farm in it, people with exceedingly low IQ’s will mistake me for a legitimate voice when I push GMO’s online for my employer’. -Joepharmer

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ……He is a stalker
    and a hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to
    function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help
    himself. ….

  • razorjack

    Troll got nothing but trolling.

    Thugs upvote thugs.

  • JoeFarmer

    OK Grandpa Fester, you should go with that.

  • razorjack

    Flagged

  • JoeFarmer

    Right back at ‘ya, Grandpa Fester!

  • Herbert West

    Derp. What’s your issue my posting here? No new posters allowed?

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ……He is a stalker and a hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help himself. ….

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ………He is a stalker and a hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help himself. ….

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ……He is a stalker and a hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help himself. ……

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ……He is a stalker and a hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help himself. .

  • razorjack

    Steve Munn is a known industry criminal thug. ……He is a stalker and a hacker and troll he has a mental illness impairs his ability to function like a decent human being. Please forgive him, he can’t help himself. ……

  • gskibum

    I’ll use 1/100 my brain and conclude that you are not able to provide a citation, because you have none to provide.

  • gskibum

    It would require that one use only a minuscule portion of one’s brain to arrive at the correct conclusion that you are not able to produce a cite. Otherwise you would have done so by now.

    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

  • gskibum

    Wow. A poisoning the well argument. How scientific of you. /sarc

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

  • SageThinker

    Not really. I understand what you’re saying but it’s not applicable here.

  • razorjack

    I didn’t make an argument I just posted the facts. Apparently you see the facts as poisoning the well. Many others do too.

  • gskibum

    You can’t address the science with science, so you are left with no option but to poison the well with misinformation from an organization that has no experts in the fields of genetics, agriculture, horticulture, or other related fields on their staff.

    Who do you want to assess the science? Chiropractors or naturalpaths or anti-vaccers?

  • razorjack

    Nonsense.

    It is not poisoning the well to disclose publicly available information.

    I wonder if you are projecting some kind of deeply hidden personal guilt.

    We have no science on the table to discuss.

  • gskibum

    In that case, it won’t hurt to raise the point that you are an anti-vaccer.

  • razorjack

    Nonsense.

    I see lots of issues with the vac agenda, but that doesn’t mean I’m against legitimate vaccinations for serious health threats.

    You are trolling me with your off topic nonsense.

  • gskibum

    Just as you are trolling us with the non-scientists at the Food and Water Watch not addressing the science backing the safety of the biotech crops available on the market, and instead poison the well with unsubstantiated accusations about the good scientists at the National Academy of Sciences.

    Food and Water Watch, and you, Mr Anti-Vaccer, cannot address science with science, so you have no course of action but to attempt to besmirch the reputations of qualified scientists at the National Academy of Sciences. All with info pulled from thin air.

    You didn’t answer my question as to who should assess the science. Climate change deniers? Chiropractors? Anti-vaccers? Naturalpaths?

  • razorjack

    Look, pal, I’m not here to listen to a bunch of crap from an anonymous industry troll who can’t get his head out of his ass.

    Nobody cares what you think, and heaping abuse on the people you can’t discuss the issues with intelligently makes you a troll

  • FrenchKissed

    Okay, I googled it and got hits from the following sites:

    naturescountrystore.xxx
    thedailymeal.xxx
    truth-out.xxx
    seattleorganicrestaurants.xxx
    countercurrents.xxx
    onegreenplanet.xxx
    beyondpesticides.xxx
    nogmoinourfood.xxx
    mintpressnews.xxx
    nyrnaturalnews.xxx
    commondreams.xxx
    nationofchange.xxx
    lensjoy.xxx
    pinterest (someone with the handle naturalgrldiary)
    naturalnews.xxx
    forcechange.xxx
    biomeonboardawareness.xxx

    I put “xxx” for the domain name because I didn’t want to do any favors for those flapdoodle sites, but needless to say they were all either .org or .com, with not a single .edu or .gov amongst them.

    If you google “Richard Gere gerbil” you can also find some interesting information from several different sources. That doesn’t mean it’s true.

  • http://perfectlycrazydragon.tumblr.com/ No balls.

    How many had stores just out of curiosity?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Do you understand dosage? Alcohol is literally a poison, yet millions of Americans drink it every day and live long, healthy lives.

    How is that possible?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Our? No one is forcing you to eat anything. It is easy to avoid GMO crops.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Did you read the article or just get mad at the headline?
    Or is every one bought and sold? It is hard to keep track.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    If you drink tap water, you are drinking poison.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Alcohol is a poison. I drink it most days. How am I not dead? How do I not have autism?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Did you read the article Big Guy?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Read the article. Can you offer some evidence to counter those pesky facts?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    lol, read the article

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Can you offer some sort of evidence to back up what ever it is you are doing? Or do you just want to make phart jokes? Phish has been terrible since the 1980s.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You do not provide evidence or provide sources. You tell stories and act like they are meaningful, it is what children do.

    You call people trolls, lol, you are the troll, son.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    The shill argument is the battle cry of the stupid.
    Did you read the article?
    Can you form your own opinion then back it up with evidence?
    I do not think you can. Go read the food babe.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You are a precious child.
    Did you resd the article?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Source?
    lol

    Do you work for the OTA? You must be a paid shill, lol.
    (The shill argument is what dumb people do when they can not come up with any evidence.)

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Did you read the article shill? You obviously work for the OTA, lol.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Is he a paid shill for the OTA? Organic trade association?
    smdh

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Nice debbie, did you read the article?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Your family must know about your glaring problems.
    Did you read the article?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Stop abusing the poor ellipsis.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    quit spamming and read the article

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    I tried explaining Ockham’s razor to him and he said that it is much more probable that there is a world wide conspiracy involving Monsanto, the government and thousands of independent scientists.

    He also tried to impugn the scientific method by saying that stars are studied differently than plants.

    He is hopelessly insane. Simple concepts like Ockham’s razor fly over his head like an Obama controlled drone.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Quit spamming son.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Did you find a source for any of your claims yet?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    No you did not. You are not a source. Your stories are bad and no reason to shape policy. No one should listen to your lies.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    If you make a contention you should be prepared to back it up with some sort of evidence. Unless of course, you want people to think you are a child.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You are a cry baby and a spammer. Find a source yet?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    That is not evidence.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You spend a lot of time lying and not offering evidence.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Do you have anything of substance to say?
    If I were an idiot, I would say that you work for the Organic Trade Association.

    Since I am not an idiot, I will not make such an idiotic claim.

    Did you read the article?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Have some one read the article to you then have them explain it using small words.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You are a crybaby and a spammer.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Prove that you are not an idiot.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Stop abusing the ellipsis child.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Can you offer any actual evidence?
    All you do, ll over the web is parrot the Food Babe, never offering anything of substance.

    When people ask you for evidence you call them shills.
    You are a child.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Link?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    It is not up to me to prove your ridiculous contentions.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Grow up.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Do you know what “evidence” means?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Do you know what evidence is?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Any amount? Source?
    You are not a source.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Did you read the article?
    Stop lying and provide some evidence.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You do not understand basic concepts about things like poison.
    Alcohol is literally a poison.
    Have you ever consumed it?
    Going by your opinion, no one should drink lcohol because it is a poison.

    If you drink tap water you drink poisons like arsenic. OMG! Arsenic?
    Yes, you drink arsenic.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Going by your school of thought this is an appropriate comment:

    Much of Debbie Owens is made up of manure.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    If you do not like being called a fake adult, then stop being one.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    If anyone can do it, why not provide a source?

    If I made this claim, “Debbie Owens murders children,” wouldn’t you want me to provide evidence instead of you providing evidence to the contrary?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    That equals 8. Grow up.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Did you have to have some one help you solve that equation?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You do not know how to use google. Grow up.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    I did and could not find anything to back up your contentions.
    It is up to you to prove them, duh.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You are a crybaby and a spammer. Grow up.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Can you offer some sort of evidence? You are doing exactly what you claim he is doing, lol.

    Did you read the article yet?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You are a whiney child with entitlement issues.
    Cover your eyes and ears son.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Read the article

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Did your parents have any children that lived?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Spammer crybaby

  • Sally Blackmore

    momsacrossamerica.com/data

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Do you know what the scientific method is?

  • Sally Blackmore

    Sage don’t bother respond to JoeFarmer. It’s all he can do is throw insult. Out of a million sperm, he is the one that made it through. So sad – but not worth your time.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Source?
    If a study is not peer reviewed and it is hidden, it is not a valid study. Good thing there are thousands of independently funded, peer reviewed studies you ignore.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You do not understand poison and dosage and you certainly do not understand science and the scientific method.

    You also do not understand how to debate like an adult.
    If I claim that you are actully a gorilla wouldn’t you want me to prove my claim instead of you disproving it?

    Have some one read that to you and explain it, then take a nap.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Source because you continuously lie.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Alcohol is a poison.
    I drank some last night.
    Tell me again about how the dosage is irrelevant, lol.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You are a liar, I would love to read about that but we both know you can not provide a source.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    How did that work out?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You are some sort of Little People and homosexual hater?
    You have a lot of hate in your heart.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You just did what you are whining able ut and do it constantly.
    You have serious mental issues.
    GMO hatred is the least of your problems.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Drinking alcohol, a poison?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Idiot plus idiot equals debbie owens

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    evidence, how does it work?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Link?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    I’ll make it simple for you. Alcohol is a poison, alcohol is in beer. People drink beer contaminated with alcohol.

    How are we all not dead?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Grow up and supply some evidence.
    I have asked yo to supply evidence at least 25 times.
    You have failed to do so every time.

    Grow up.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    What is wrong with science? Do you and sagedinker want to take another shot at the scientific method?

    That was fun.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Smart people you know have posted a ton of evidence?
    Awesome!

    Why can’t you? You must be really bad off.

    Let’s take another crack at the scientific method.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    How did that work out?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Is alcohol a poison?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Anti vacciners are cute.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Have you ever drank tap water?
    You have drank poison in the form of arsenic!
    How are you not dead?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You are unable to participate in debate like an adult.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Did you ever find those pesky studies?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    More stories and no evidence.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    crybaby

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Do you know what the scientific method is?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Do the scientific method next.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You are a spamming baby.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    They are not facts because you say so, lol.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You and your wacky friends have no science to discuss, that is the problem with you silly children.

    Ockham’s razor

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    anonymous industry troll is what dumb children say

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    I am surprised you actually read the article.
    Did you know that alcohol is a poison?

    Do you have any evidence?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Where is your evidence? You must work for the Organic Trade Association, lol.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    If you were stranded on a desert island and could only have one book, wouldn’t we all be better off?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You love that story. Do you have anything besides stories?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Don’t confuse her ith stuff like that. She says that a poison is a poison, no matter the dose as she sips her red zinfandel wine.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    lol, I’m done drinking urine.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    First off, momsacrossamerica, lol.
    I read the first “study” and it relies entirely on correlations and comes to the conclusion that further study is warranted. Did you read that?

    Do you beleive that correlation implies causation?
    Going by that, I can prove that the age of Miss America is directly linked to the amount of murders done by steam, hot vapors and hot objects. The older the Miss America is, the more murders there are.

    Did you read any of those?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Since I read your stuff, did you get a chance to read the above article yet?
    Any comments? They actually talk about you, Debbie Owens and sagedinker in it.

  • Herbert West

    Prove that you are not a monkey pressing keys.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Did your parents have any children that lived?

  • Herbert West

    Do you have human parents? I think we’ve solved that riddle.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Humans like myself use logic and reason. Luddites like yourself eschew logic, reason and science.

  • SageThinker

    ta ta troll

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Bye bye baby girl

  • Herbert West

    Cite some of the science you are referring to. Please.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Why cite science to a science hater?
    You will just call it bought and paid for and call me a shill.

  • Herbert West

    Nice deflection. Your refusal to answer did not disappoint.

  • Herbert West

    BTW, do you paid product pushers find that fake avatars sells more product? I see you chose a professional looking make fake avatar, some of the other fake pharma accounts use attractive female avatars…wondering which is more effective?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Why not prove farmer joe is not a farmer?
    Why not prove why phish has never been a good band?
    Why not take two weeks off then quit?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Why is it that you paid Organic Trade Association shills always misue the ellipsis and hate rational thougt, reason and logic? Is it because you were born with defective DNA or is it because you were raised by complete idiots?

    But since you asked. My avatar contains a picture of Kevin Sabet, someone whomis about as dumb as you are. Have someone google him and explain to you what he is all about. You will probably agree with all he has to say, you are both idiots.

  • Herbert West

    All you have is the empty ad hominem, the favorite tool of the online paid poster. Don’t kid yourself, you’re not fooling many people.

  • Herbert West

    Is that all you got? Your boss should fire you, subpar shill/troll.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You really are a special kind of stupid. If I were paid to comment, lol, why would I insult you and your lack of intelligence? If I wanted to sway your opinion that would be a terrible technique. If I were paid to comment, lol, I would pretend to agree with you then walk you down a path where you realize you are supporting a logical fallacy.

    Insulting you is not a good waynto change your opinion, dumbass.

    I have been called a paid shill by smarter people than you and they were idiots.
    Calling someone a paid commenter is just so incredibly stupid. It just points to a lack of intelligence and the inability to use logic and reason.

    The last moron that called me a paid commenter said that the scientific mmethod is not valid. What do you got?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You might be the dumbest one to call me a paid shill.
    Tell me about scientific studies and the scientific method.

  • Herbert West

    Great idea, why don’t you cite the science backing your opinion. I’m stating it doesn’t exist.

  • Herbert West

    You’re a bottom shelf shill, very transparent. Why don’t you save some time, and face, and cite the legitimate science you imply backs your opinion. I’m stating it doesn’t exist.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Usually dim bulbs like yourself do not think peer reviewed, repeatable studies are not valid.

    Are you sure you want to talk about studies?
    You think I am paid to insult you, so you are obviously not smart.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    What opinion? That you are a complete idiot with no redeeming values?
    Or that only brain dead idiots think that people like me are paid to insult you and your lack of intelligence?

    If you would like to talk about the thousands of studies that go back to the 1980s that do not show that GMOs are harmful, we could. I imagine you will say that all of those studies are bought snd paid for.

    It is typical, you are not the first mouth breather to spout that garbage.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Out of curiosity, who do you think is dumb enough to pay me to insult you and hurt their cause? Bayer? Monsanto?

    Did you know that Monsanto is about to stop making GMO seeds?

  • Herbert West

    Cite whatever you think is relevant. Your ad hominems are about as fresh as a Foghat concert.

  • Herbert West

    Stop screaming like a petulant child and post some of the more relevant studies. Your little tantrums are borderline disturbing.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Citations showing you are an idiot?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Screaming? lol

    Remeber when you called me a shill?
    What kind of relevant studies? We are not discussing GMOs we are tossing insults around.

    Did you know that Monsanto plans to stop making GMO seeds soon?

  • Herbert West

    Ok, so you are either unable or unwilling to post anything relevant supporting your statements, you are only capable of posting insults. You have confirmed yourself as either a paid shill, or a unemployed troll living in moms basement.

  • Herbert West

    Lol, does anyone on these forums take you seriously? Either get a job so you can move out of your moms basement, or improve your shill tactics, otherwise they do fire bottom shelf non-talent.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Supportive to what statements?
    Are you trying to prove how dumb you are?
    Good work.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You are too dumb to be a shill for the Organic Trade Association.
    Did you know that Bayer/Monsanto is going to stop making GMO seeds?

  • Herbert West

    Ok, I have a policy of not responding to unemployed, temper tantrum throwing men living in their moms basement. Later.

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    Sweet for you Dippy. I could buy and sell your whole family. When I turn 59.5 I will retire from my lucrative paid shill position and enjoy my bought and paid for house. Do you know the significance of the age 59.5?

    Did they revoke your computer privileges at the institution?

  • http://www.BobIsaFatDisgustingUrineCollector.com IJR

    You should revisit your policy of being a mouth breathing idiot.

  • Herbert West

    Your mommy type that while you’re sitting on her lap drooling?

  • https://www.GoAwayStalkerMoron.com IJR

    Did you ever get anyone to read you the article?
    Why would anyone pay me to insult your lack of intelligence?

  • SageThinker

    So on the thing that is in favor of the industry, they’re right, but on the question where their answer is “inconvenient” they are wrong?

    ha ha ha!!! rolling on the floor

    How convenient, just like climate change denial.

  • SageThinker

    It’s in much food. It’s in soya beans at 3 ppm and AMPA at 2 ppm and it’s in grain based goods at ~ 1 ppm or so…. yes it’s in the food.

  • SageThinker

    You’re a piece of shit you asshole.

  • SageThinker

    You’re a piece of shit and an asshole. Die.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Oh Tinkler, you’re such a charmer! Still living in that shitbox little made-over U-Haul trailer and crapping outdoors in the hedgerow? You’re some piece of work, you are. Not exactly someone we ought to be taking advice from…or crude insults. Loser.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Way to go Tinkler — the usual puerile response from a chronic loser who’s been debunked once again. Maybe the problem is you’ve begun believing your own bullshit propaganda? Could that be the source of all the pointless drama and lashing-out? Man, that will drag you down every time, especially a spammer as careless as you are, whose choreographed rants and reckless errors flow in a continuous stream. Face it, you’re not very good at this, or at much of anything, apparently. I wouldn’t say you should die, but you certainly ought to give it up, maybe train up for a socially redeeming purpose. If you applied yourself diligently you might just get it right, for once. Maybe. Oh well, probably not…better just forget it. Cheers!

  • SageThinker

    No sometimes my pressure relief valve can’t take any more toxic crap.

  • SageThinker

    Oh look, you’ve done your “opposition research” which shows how low and sick you are… profiling someone (you’re wrong by the way) and then using said knowledge instead of addressing the actual issues at hand. How low can you go? ? pretty darn low.

  • SageThinker
  • SageThinker

    I have provided said evidence multiple times in this forum now, and again above to your other comment. I would not like to flood this forum with images though so please scroll up Robert Wager. Your comment here is pretty much attacking and lacks integrity and framing me as not providing evidence when in fact i speak with integrity. It’s pretty clear. Thanks Debbie for calling this out.

  • SageThinker

    We’d do well to look at Brewster (1991) with single oral dose in rats and you will see where gly goes in mammals. Probably good for extrapolation to humans on most counts, within an order of magnitude. Much is excreted in feces and urine of course, though some is converted to AMPA which shows probably metabolized by some gut microbiota. 1% or so remains in the bones and carcass after one week. That’s showing that it does pass around the whole organism.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1916078

  • SageThinker

    My reply is that “dose makes the poison” is a fool’s meme where chronic exposure is relevant, and where many modes of action are possible and even probable. And… other toxins are not relevant. That’s a red herring. So many fallacies. Seems like agenda pushing. Not unbiased inquiry.

  • SageThinker

    Yeah, that is EVIDENCE — do you want me to spoon feed you? Will you pay me to be your caretaker?

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Ha! Only a couple of months ago your “relief valve” approach was to block commenters whose facts interfere with your fantasy. So, that silly maneuver didn’t work out for you and now you’ve returned the underhanded ruse of sneaking back around and editing your comments to appear different after discussion has begun — covering up your angry childish tactic of name-calling and profanity. Real classy, dude, real classy…not. You are underhanded slime, Tinkler. The loser of all losers.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    Yep, pays to know your persecutors. Talk about low, Tinkler, we see you’re once again resorting to discretely editing your comments after the fact to alter content — now that’s low. Lowest of the low. Precisely what we expect from a hopelessly failed groveling alarmist turd like yourself. Have you no self-esteem, no credibility whatsoever? It seems not. Sucks to be you, Daft Tinkler.

  • SageThinker

    Nope, if you’re in a dialog about a topic then stick to the topic. Opposition research of that kind is creepy and stalkerish. And i’m NOT your “persecutor” you piece of shit.

  • SageThinker

  • Damo

    You forgot she is a racist cunt. That must be in the equation somewhere.

  • Damo

    This is the guy that blocked me when I posted facts for being hostile. Don’t forget to add hypocrite to sage’s long list of faults.

  • Damo

    I know that you claim to have blocked me, but let me point out that you insulted him, not the other way around.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    “My reply is that “dose makes the poison” is a fool’s meme where chronic exposure is relevant …”

    False. If your claim was true, no vegetable would be safe to eat since every vegetable contains traces of a cocktail of natural toxins. Of course, drinking water would also be out of the question because too much of it causes water poisoning aka hyperhydration. Your own words, “So many fallacies. Seems like agenda pushing. Not unbiased inquiry” apply to you. After all this time you still haven’t learned the basics of toxicology. Amazing.

  • SageThinker

    Um…. dose makes the poison is relevant to acute toxicity but not to chronic toxicity so when someone makes it seem like “dose makes the poison” erases all concerns of toxicity then they’re either ignorant or dishonest….. .but you know that already dude. You’re pushing a thing.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    Blah blah blah. Few things are chronically toxic, which is fortunate because we are exposed to hundreds of toxins in our food, air and water everyday and our body even manufactures some. I’m not buying your fake organic industry corrupted science.

  • JoeFarmer

    It’s always entertaining to watch you try to science, Sage!

  • SageThinker

    When someone says “to science” or “do you even science” it’s a near certain giveaway that they “don’t science” but rather that “they skeptic” as in this:
    http://endocriminal.blogspot.com/2016/11/reclaiming-skepticism.html?m=1

  • SageThinker

    Lots of things are. Lots of things are. You’re so wrong.

  • https://www.GoAwayStalkerMoron.com IJR

    You are as dumb as a box of hammers and much less useful

  • https://www.GoAwayStalkerMoron.com IJR

    Sagey, Sagey, Sagey.

    Sage Thinker, that is like a 400 pound man being called “Tiny.”

    It is not up to me to prove your contentions.

  • https://www.GoAwayStalkerMoron.com IJR

    You are a paid shill for the OTA.

  • SageThinker

    Nope and that’s why i provided EVIDENCE dude.

    “It is not up to me to prove your contentions.” — ha ha!
    You joker.

    You rhetorician.

  • SageThinker

    You’re nothing.

  • Herbert West

    Lol, the who? Where’s my check?

  • https://www.GoAwayStalkerMoron.com IJR

    No you didn’t, you made a contention and if it is the study I am thinking of, it does not match what you said.

    I can make contentions too. Watch me.

    You are a moron with no redeeming features.

    Prove me wrong, because I am right.

    Organic farming is not sustainable.

  • https://www.GoAwayStalkerMoron.com IJR

    Organic farming is bad for the environment.

  • https://www.GoAwayStalkerMoron.com IJR

    The Organic Trade Association. They are a bunch of liars.
    Organic farming is not sustainable and is bad for the environment.
    Fact.

  • https://www.GoAwayStalkerMoron.com IJR

    You have never called anyone a shill for monsanto before?
    Whole Foods is about the same size as monsanto was before they were bought.

    Did you know that monsanto is moving away from gmo seeds? You guys never keep up. They wont tell you this stuff in the natural news, lol.

  • Herbert West

    “You have never called anyone a shill for monsanto before? ”
    No, I haven’t.

  • Herbert West

    Cite that fact.

  • Peter Olins

    Any evidence for your striking claim that chronic toxicity is not related to dose?

    Who knows, perhaps you’re right. However, if you have a radical hypothesis that flies in the face of current knowledge, you need to offer evidence and logic.

  • https://www.GoAwayStalkerMoron.com IJR

    Wow, you are in the minority. Most Luddites tire of logic and reason and go off the rails, my apologies.

  • https://www.GoAwayStalkerMoron.com IJR

    There are numerous studies and articles.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2014/11/19/why-organic-isnt-sustainable/#40c0bd6a37aa

    http://www.zmescience.com/other/science-abc/organic-food-science02092015/

    Lower yields mean more land use. Organic farming sometimes uses 20 times the pesticides and fungicides that conventional farming does. More gas tomproduce and distribute these organic chemicals leaves a large carbon footprint.

  • Jason

    Still trying to compare two different graphs measuring two different things, Sage? You’ve been instructed many, many times why these don’t and shouldn’t match. Yet you continue to promote this farce.

    If lying is necessary to promote your cause, what does that say about the validity of your cause??

  • SageThinker

    Obfuscator.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    I see you’ve finally taken down the spoof post that you thought was legit. It doesn’t change anything, you are still obviously a complete whackjob.

  • SageThinker

    Blocking you, asshole. Ciao. Burn in hell.

  • SageThinker

    Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude….. you KNOW you’re obfuscating here.

    Of course the dose is relevant in regard to chronic toxicity. Dose over time is very relevant and it’s a complex story for many chemicals.

    But “dose makes the poison” is a meme in regard to acute poisoning, meant to imply that below a threshold there is no toxicity for many chemicals. That’s simply not true for many chemicals because even far below the acute toxic level, many chemicals have effects from chronic exposure.

    Any other straw men that you would like me to knock down?

    Please don’t waste my time with nonsense.

  • Peter Olins

    Yeah, I thought not.

  • SageThinker

    Yeah and you didn’t answer my complete explanation as to why you’re an obfuscator here. You’re so dishonest you slime.

    Of course the dose is relevant in regard to chronic toxicity. Dose over time is very relevant and it’s a complex story for many chemicals.

    But “dose makes the poison” is a meme in regard to acute poisoning, meant to imply that below a threshold there is no toxicity for many chemicals. That’s simply not true for many chemicals because even far below the acute toxic level, many chemicals have effects from chronic exposure.

  • Peter Olins

    As you know, it is extremely hard to study toxicity in humans, so we rely on animal models — fully realizing that no model can be completely predictive (humans are not rodents).

    Toxic effects are typically proportional to level of exposure. Low level exposure results in small effects which can be hard to measure, and experimental “noise” typically increases with the length of the experiment. The result is that much toxicology research is done with relatively high doses, for relatively short periods of time. Whether this approach is relevant depends on the mechanism of toxicity. For example, development of cancer is a multi-step process which can take a long time.

    I think your point is that you question the validity of current approaches for evaluating the effect of long-term exposure to low levels of chemicals. If so, I agree that caution is required, but this is the real world, and we will never have a perfect model, but if you have a better idea, please share it.

    BTW A bit of advice: if you want to be taken seriously, resorting to ad hominem remarks (calling some “slime”) simply undermines your credibility. Grow up.

  • SageThinker

    Yes, i know a lot about toxicology.

    “Typically” is not “always”. There are cases in which response is not linearly proportional to dose. In fact, many such cases.

    I know how much toxicology is done, but that doesn’t mean that chronic exposure at lower levels is unimportant. It means it’s less studied because it’s more difficult.

    And, it’s actually not that hard to do human epidemiology regarding glyphosate levels, as it’s testable from simple urine samples. If one wanted to and had about $1m for the purpose, one could follow a few thousand people for a few years and get glyphosate body burden levels, and see whether they correlate to specific health outcomes, and regress the data to remove other factors as much as possible.

    Yes, i more than question, i know because it’s obvious that the current testing regimes are not fully adequate and not cautious enough for my own values. I can say this without providing a blueprint for another world, but another world is possible. The answers are obvious. More care about people instead of profit. More caution instead of throwing it to the wind in pursuit of profit. The social system around agrochemicals is probe to distortion because of profit motive. That must be dismantled. Otherwise we’ll keep sailing into the same shoals over and over — as we have — to the harm of the common people, like those of Anniston, Alabama, and those of the Housatonic River Valley, and those of Bhopal, and those of Hoosick, NY, and those of….. etc.

    BTW i don’t need your “advice” considering the level of dialog you’ve shown in the past.

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    Sage turned up to a satirical site, The Spudd, and despite the obvious disclaimer and satirical nature of the article, got sucked in! Sage is not playing with a full deck:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/182601dc765bc810328752faea39ad3639aaccbf933f210bdf32e7101e90244f.png

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    Sage’s behaviour has deteriorated significantly over the past few months.

  • Farmer with a Dell

    And his behavior wasn’t all that coherent to begin with. I wouldn’t have guessed the obtuse hammerhead could become any more hammerheaded, but live and learn, eh?

  • http://tedminer.blogspot.com.au/ Captain Moonlight

    A couple years back Sage appeared much saner than he does now, although even back then his idée fixe about the Great Gut Microbiome Holocaust was a tad unhinged ;)

  • http://organictransit.com Solar Surfer

    Hater on the prowl for hate mongering. You are the piece of shit.

  • http://organictransit.com Solar Surfer

    You are scum on the inside of a bowl of rancid bile.

  • http://organictransit.com Solar Surfer

    Then stop seeking out anti-science hate venues for the express purpose of feeding your Machiavellian Sadist compulsion. You also get endorphins by jogging.

  • http://organictransit.com Solar Surfer

    That’s great news! Much safer than all the previous pesticides used or organic pesticides. More please.

  • http://organictransit.com Solar Surfer

    Excellent news! We’d much rather have traces of that than any other pesticide. The approved organic pesticides are especially toxic.

    Icing on the cake is the way glyphosate passes through the body and out with zero hard or bio-accumulation.

    Tell us some more good news.

  • http://organictransit.com Solar Surfer

    Ha! You have not the slightest inkling of a clue about toxicology. If you did you would not be a career anti-science hate troll and a Machiavellian sadist to boot.

  • http://organictransit.com Solar Surfer

    Look in the mirror, asshole.

  • SageThinker

    Brewster (1991) shows that 1% of a single oral dose remains in the bones and carcass of rats after 1 week (168 hours).